29th September 2016
Established 1872. Online since 1996.

Scott raises fears over whitefish fleet’s viability

Liberal Democrat candidate Tavish Scott has raised the potential for the Scottish government’s discard ban – no fish to be dumped at sea – to hit the viability of Shetland’s whitefish fleet.

 

Martin Leyland (left) from the fishmarket and election candidate Tavish Scott inspect the morning's catch. Photo: Dave Donaldson

Martin Leyland (left) from the fishmarket and election candidate Tavish Scott inspect the morning’s catch. Photo: Dave Donaldson

Mr Scott highlighted the issue during a visit to the Lerwick fishmarket on Wednesday morning as part of his Scottish election campaign.

 

The ban was introduced in January 2016 and will be extended to more species of fish next year. The proposed government rules are causing real worries to the industry.

Mr Scott, one of four seeking election as the constituency MSP, said: “Local boats fear they will be tied to the pier by the imposition of unworkable government rules.

“I will work with the local industry to press for a sensible approach. That means rules that work.

“A discard ban – stopping the dumping of any fish caught – may be fine in principle but is impossible to implement in a mixed fishery.

“Shetland’s whitefish boats catch a mixture of fish. So the government rules have to both understand that and accommodate the reality of fishing.

“So far the industry tell me that their warnings have been falling on the Scottish government’s deaf ears.

“I will work with the Shetland Fishermen’s Association and local boats to press for the right approach.

“Seafood is Shetland’s biggest industry. It is worth more than £350 million. So the government cannot be allowed to put that success in jeopardy.

“We need a better approach than we have had from the last Scottish government.”

80 comments

  1. Jonathan wills

    It’s not the Scottish Government’s discards ban. It’s the European Commission’s ban, as Tavish knows very well. Opposition to it is shared across party lines and attempting to blame the SNP is not justified.
    Shetland Islands Council has been working with the Shetland Fishermen’s Association for the past three years to have the details of this unworkable, unfair and unenforceable measure changed.
    On Tuesday next week, for example, I will be in Brussels to chair a meeting of the fisheries group, as the SIC’s representative on the EU’s Conference of Peripheral Maritime Regions (CPMR). I will be making the point that crews investing in new boats, and in improved boats like the Alison Kay, will be very seriously affected if the ban stays in its present form. I expect the CPMR fisheries group will agree a detailed resolution urging changes to the policy.
    There is all-party backing for this in most EU fishing regions and I trust Tavish will continue to support the council’s and the fishermen’s campaign in a non-partisan manner, notwithstanding the imminent Scottish Parliament election.
    Cllr. Jonathan Wills
    Independent
    Lerwick South ward

    • John Tulloch

      Who manages the implementation of the EU’s discards ban in Scotland, if not the Scottish government?

      Much as they would wish to wash their hands of it, they can’t.

      • Jonathan Wills

        Mr Tulloch is mistaken. No-one is “washing their hands”. The discard ban was imposed on Scotland by the EU, due to an emotional and ill-informed vote by MEPs eager to parade their green credentials and please some ignorant tellychef celebrities.
        The Scottish Government is in fact working with the fishermen’s representatives to try to find a solution to the problem. This is difficult when the UK Government is the body responsible for dealing with the European Commission, so the Scottish Government’s hands are to some extent tied, as it cannot negotiate directly. This is why some of us think it would be better for fisheries policy, or at least our dealings with Brussels, to be fully devolved to Scotland, where fishing is still a nationally important industry, which it is no longer, alas, in England.
        If Mr Tulloch and ‘Wir Shetland’ have constructive, practical proposals for resolving the problem, I would be delighted to take their ideas to Brussels with me next week and to ask the fisheries group of the CPMR to consider them. This would be more useful than shouting insults from the touchline, perhaps?

      • John Tulloch

        Three years, Jonathan? And you’ve achieved exactly the same as Our islands, Our Future has in its three year negotiations with Holyrood. Nothing. ZIlch.

        Said Bertie Armstrong, chief executive of Scottish Fishermen’s Federation (SFF), in December 2014:

         “….. I am delighted that Richard Lochhead, the Scottish Government’s Fisheries Secretary, has been a key player in the build-up to Monday’s EU Council meeting.

         “The negotiating position which George Eustice will be adopting has been informed by months of meetings with Ministers like Richard ……”

         “Richard has also been involved in meetings with  EU Fisheries Commissioner Karmenu Vella, Elizabeth Truss, the UK Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and George Eustice.”

        So you see, Jonathan, you aren’t the only one who has been unable to do anything about it, the Scottish and UK governments have been “up ta dir ocksters” in it, too and your combined effort has achieved nothing. Zilch.

        Funny, I thought you would have known that?

        This is why WIr Shetland advocates self-governing autonomy for Shetland. The power to win control of our own fishing grounds will be a key advantage flowing from that.
        http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2014/12/13/crucial-meeting-on-quotas-and-discard-ban-next-week

      • Ray Purchase

        John Tulloch, can you please tell us how this autonomy for Shetland is going to be achieved? How are you going to bring it about?

      • John Tulloch

        By democracy, Ray. It needs the will of the people behind it and that’s what we are campaigning to achieve.

      • Ray Purchase

        Ok, fair point John – you do need the will of the people behind you. My question was more about the practical side of it. Say in the near future there’s an opinion poll and the majority, or even a substantial percentage, of people here in favour of autonomy how would you then go about making it happen? Who has to grant it and how do you approach it? Is this something Wir Shetland have mapped out? What are the machinations?

    • Ali Inkster

      3 years! And what have you achieved Jonathan, in all this time persuading the EU to listen to reason over this unworkable and unfair discards ban? Are wir fishermen having to deal with it or not? And who is going to deal with the unmarketable fish once it is onshore and who was supposed to make arrangements to deal with it?

    • Ian Tinkler

      Let’s just take stock here, Wir Shetland, is campaigning for full autonomy. If successful Shetland Fishermen to take complete control of their own Shetland fishing grounds. The EU fishing policy, and regulations, including discard bans, would then be an utter irrelevance and a thing of the past. Now another point, Johnathon Wills, is playing the role of fisherman’s friend, he negotiates on behalf of Shetland fishermen. Is it not ironic at the same time as Dr. Wills, negotiates for “The Shetland fishermen’s associations”, he advocates endlessly for Viking Energy and petitions directly to Westminster and Europe for its interconnector. That interconnector is the forerunner and catalyst for offshore wind farms around Shetland. 2000square miles of them and the infamous Shetland power hub! Sometimes you have to wonder who your real friends are, 2000squre miles of floating windfarms, multiple power hub and most fishing grounds will become thing of the past. All references available online, or just ask Johnathon, how can you lobby for the fishing whilst doing your best to wreck the industry? (SNP energy policy)!!

  2. iantinkler

    Cllr. Jonathan Wills, Independent!, In a “pig’s eye”. Jonathan minght have called himself independent, rather like Cllr Westlake/Hawick, called herself independant. He is an ardent “Yes” supporting Nationalist, just as Amanda . Having just seen the abysmal result Dannus manageed in the 2012 Concil election standing for the SNP. I can see why Amanda and Jonathan kept their Nationalist suport under wraps. Poor Dannus, with integrety, standing on an SNP ticket, got less votes than me! That is quite an achievement as the Anti VE, keep rural schools open, campaign ticket, on the West Side, which I stood for, split the vote 5 ways if memory serves. I draw people attention to these facts just in case Dr. Wills views are a tad spun.

    • Robin Stevenson

      Ian, unlike yourself and John [and a few others]

      There are independents out there that are capable of appreciating what certain other parties are trying to achieve? It’s generally called ‘consensual politics’, Now I know that’s quite alien to yourself, but it actually makes for a more progressive common goal if everyone agrees? If we look at the constant whingers over the years, ie: Labour/Tories and the Lib/Dems, where’s it got them to date? You should try it? Surprise yourself and say something nice about the SNP?…lol 🙂

    • Jonathan Wills

      Mr Tinkler’s spelling is getting worse, which is sad, but I can reassure him that my support for the SNP in this election is not being kept “under wraps”. Although I am not a member of any political party and am indeed an independent councillor I will be voting for Danus Skene. That is because I think he is the best candidate and because, in my opinion, the SNP Government’s record, although not perfect, is considerably better than their predecessors’ in Holyrood, to say nothing of the unelected Tory junta now lording it in London – with 37% of the UK vote and only 10% in Scotland – thanks to the grossly undemocratic British voting system which our Liberal friends were supposed to reform.

      • Gordon Harmer

        Nice one Jonathan, you seem to party hop as much as the man you are backing, is it contagious?
        This is what you had to say about the SNP some time ago in an interview with Shetland Life. “I think the SNP are a serious threat to the stability of this country. I am British and glad of it, like many of mixed Shetland and English or Scottish ancestry. Independence is unnecessary, expensive, damaging to the economy, socially disruptive and probably unachievable anyway in a Europe of the Regions. I believe the people of Scotland will want to try out devolution in the new parliament and see how we get on”. What changed Jonathan?

      • Ian Tinkler

        But Gordon, you must remember Johnathan is a Camelion, he will change his color to match his ego. Even, like Dannus, he has stood as a candidate for the Labour Party. If memory serves he lost his deposit on that occasion, no surprise there then.

      • Brian Smith

        My mind, because the minds that I have loved,
        The sort of beauty that I have approved,
        Prosper but little, has dried up of late,
        Yet knows that to be choked with hate
        May well be of all evil chances chief.
        If there’s no hatred in a mind
        Assault and battery of the wind
        Can never tear the linnet from the leaf.

      • Robin Stevenson

        Gordon

        It’s really quite simple, ‘what’s changed’ you ask?….How about the promised – last minute – ‘devolution’ which was not forthcoming? The ‘Vow’, the ‘near federalism’, ‘one of the most devolved governments on the planet?’….It was a ploy, a lie, a pretence of something that they had NO intention of ever delivering, the ‘project fear’ has now been seen as the sham it was, that’s ‘what’s changed’.

        Had it not been for the ‘pretendy’ offer of ‘Devo to the max’, we may well be sitting here in the process to becoming independent? Now, of course, our Unionist friends are petrified of a re-run as they know they’ve played their best hand? You don’t get a second chance to use the same tactics, ‘The boy that cried wolf’.

        People now know they were hoodwinked, that’s why the SNP swept the board in 2015, and look likely to do the same in 3 weeks time. The Scottish electorate obviously don’t like being taken for mugs? Devolution is now NO longer an option, independence is the ONLY sensible alternative. Then [and ONLY then] will we sit down with our neighbours and have a realistic conversation about our United Kingdom’S’, as equal partners.

      • Gordon Harmer

        Robin, even you must know Gordon Brown was not in power when he made such statements.
        But you have proved one thing once again and that is you are part of a non democratic group with one thing on your mind even though it is against the will of the Scottish people. “Powers” is a dirty word which you twist to your advantage, “powers” something you demand even though the majority of Scots said no, “powers” which you receive and are afraid to use in case you have to make an unpopular decisions and it loses you votes. “Powers” a word, a political toy which you use only as such”powers” something you actually afraid of.

      • Robin Stevenson

        Gordon

        Looking at Scots through decades of historically voting Labour, it has to be said that In the minds of many, ‘old clunkin fist Brown’ was still perceived to have a certain amount of sway. This however, has now been – finally – seen to be what it always was, the retention of power at the expense, and to the detriment of Scots. Unfortunately it takes some a little longer to catch on.

        Your comment about ‘non-democratic’ is, ofc, bunkum.

        For some obscure reason you’re under the illusion that a vote once cast is a vote for life? IF that truly was the case, no-one would ever dare change their mind and we might as well do away with ALL future elections?

        The ‘powers’ you talk of, are merely tiny percentages of powers, which on their own are frankly useless? Unless ofc, you consider ‘street signs’ to – somehow – boost the Scottish economy? Basically, it’s a bit like me giving John a set of oars then asking him to explain why he hasn’t sorted out the fishing industry?
        So it’s not ‘afraid’ to use what little we’ve been granted, it’s far more, they serve little purpose on their own.

      • Gordon Harmer

        Robin, why have you become the personal keyboard warrior for Jonathan, I thought you where the SNPs official keyboard warrior. I would think Jonathan has a big enough vocabulary under that beard of his to have a go at me if it were no so embarrassing for him, but it must be doubly embarrassing for to have you defend him.

    • Ray Purchase

      Ian, it was only 6 months ago that Wir Shetland was set up and I quite clearly remember them making a big deal of having an SNP supporting councillor as an early member – so nothing was kept under wraps about allegiances. When you stood for council, that time that 94% of us didn’t vote for you, I believe you stood as independent despite you having strong party political beliefs did you not?

      • Ian Tinkler

        Good point, Ray Purchase, but I had more votes than Dannus Skenne managed in the same election (Whoop, whoop, Whoop). He had the SNP backing him, not that it helped him much., I was not nor had ever been a member of any political party. Wir Shetland did not even exist at that time so what is your point.

  3. iantinkler

    Sorry about the Spelling Jonathan, dyslexic, but as that seems you’re only valid criticism of my points, so I can live with that. I hate to be blunt, but you’re chairing a meeting of the fisheries group, as the SIC’s representative on the EU’s Conference of Peripheral Maritime Regions (CPMR), contrary tour own inflated belief in yourself, will not even be regarded as a minor irritant to the policy makers of the EU. If you believe otherwise you are truly delusional. I notice the usual Nationalist mantra “Tory junta now lording it in London”, now how about, SNP cable of the Socialist Nationalists, dictating in Holyrood. I hope the spelling does not upset you too much!!

  4. Robert Duncan

    “If Mr Tulloch and ‘Wir Shetland’ have constructive, practical proposals for resolving the problem, I would be delighted to take their ideas to Brussels with me next week and to ask the fisheries group of the CPMR to consider them. This would be more useful than shouting insults from the touchline, perhaps?”

    Plenty of posts since Councillor Wills said this, and yet still no constructive points. Wir Shetland looks more every day like an ego project for our resident Green Biro Brigade.

    • John Tulloch

      I haven’t “shouted any insults.”

    • Ian Tinkler

      Wow, Robert Duncan that comment, “still no constructive points” has to take the biscuit for hypocrisy . Is that as constructive as you can be ? Another gem from a Nationalist, or is he leaning in a different direction now, rather like Johnathon and Dannus? Now, I wonder how Robin Stevenson would see that in his definition of “Turncoat”.

      • Robert Duncan

        You must have better things to do than pursue such childish nonsense, Ian. Jonathan asked for constructive suggestions to put to an actual working group: you, John Tulloch and Ali Inkster have all since replied, but failed to do anything but indulge your typical politicking love of harping on about the SNP.

        If all you have to respond to this with is playground he-said-she-said nonsense, do everybody a favour and save the time it takes to type, as I sincerely doubt there is a single reader interested in what by now surely constitutes ‘trolling’.

      • Ali Inkster

        We have put wir constructive thoughts out there, get out of the EU and take control ower wir waters for da benefit o Shetlanders now and into da future. As things stand young Shetlanders are turning away from the fishing because as part of the EU the best they can hope for in the future is a berth on a Dutch pelagic trawler or fishing some slipper skippers quota for them. Because they sure as hell won’t be able to afford quota themselves.

      • Robert Duncan

        Getting out of the EU is not within the remit of the Scottish Government. If you are going to complain about the actions of said Scottish Government, as all three of you have done, you are going to have to make genuine suggestions for what they might do differently within the powers they have. If not, your complaints should be directed elsewhere.

      • Derick Tulloch

        Perhaps “young Shetlanders” “turning away from the fishing” should move to the Philippines first.

        Maybe that would help them get a berth on a Shetland boat, if they are willing to take the terms, conditions and wages on offer, whatever those might be?

        Does Wir Shetland have a fisheries spokesperson who might comment?

      • Brian Smith

        Interesting constructive thought, Ali, but the candidate you are backing doesn’t agree with you!

      • Ali Inkster

        If it is not in the remit of the scoti government Robert why are they campaigning for a vote to stay in?

      • Ali Inkster

        As should young IT hopefuls wanting to work for the government. seeing as how 300 of them working on of all things the CAP software were all sacked and cheap compliant workers imported by holyrood, from of all places the Philippines and several other Asian countries. Maybe the SNP have a spin doctor that could explain that.

      • Ali Inkster

        Like the rest o wis Brian, Tavish only has one vote in the referendum.

      • Robert Duncan

        “If it is not in the remit of the scoti government Robert why are they campaigning for a vote to stay in?”

        What a strange comment. If I go out leafletting tomorrow will it be in my remit too?

        If you’re trying to make the point that they are culpable through their support of the EU, it still wouldn’t justify such an attack by Tavish Scott, given that is one of the issues they agree on.

      • Ali Inkster

        What “attack” by Tavish are you on about Robert? He raised fears about holyrood and marine scotlands handling of the EU discard rules, By god you nationalist are pretty thin skinned if you think that is an “attack”

      • Robert Duncan

        He falsely represented the discards ban as being the doing of the Scottish Government. It isn’t, it is an EU directive over which the Scottish Government has almost no say.

        I’m not a nationalist. It is possible to discuss things without polarising into Yes/No camps, especially given the referendum was now quite a long time ago. I’d suggest it may be time to move on, if you can find it in you.

  5. Ian Tinkler

    O Dear, Robert Duncan your getting less constructive as you become more agitated. If you chose to read any of the Wir Shetland literature, you would know exactly what Wir Shetland’s ideas are for the Shetland fishing. Clearly as always with yourself. and most Nationalists, logical argument is irelavent. If one does not acquiesce to the Nationalist view, then it is time for the insults. Some leopards, like yourself, just never can change their spots, rather unlike, Dannus and Johnathon who prefer the camelion approach, change sides endlessly, for some purpose that wholly eludes me.

  6. kenneth groat

    I would welcome Tulloch, Harmer and Tinkler’s constructive practical proposals, as Robert has put it childish playground behaviour online does nobody any favours. And is definitely not constructive well do you have anything constructive for Jonathan ?.

    • Gordon Harmer

      I am trying to figure out where you are coming from Mr Groat, but cannot figure it out apart for the constructive, practical proposal for Jonathan which is to resign. This proposal is based on the fact that Jonathan does not seem to know his own mind or who to attach allegiance to when it comes to politics. Mr Groat I do not see how bringing up an interview Jonathan gave to Shetland Life which contradicts what he says now is childish, perhaps you could enlighten me.

      • kenneth groat

        The reason why I don’t comment much and no doubt many readers also, is your continuing personal attacks on anyone who dares to think otherwise minded from yourself in anything that’s discussed . And they are crude ( in my opinion ) yourself Tinkler and Tulloch you are all the same!, no matter what is discussed. So do you have any proposals or is it attack attack attack with crude comments.

      • Gordon Harmer

        Mr Groat, I just love the way you claim some of us use personal attacks as a means of getting out points across. Especially when you address us as Harmer, Tinkler and Tulloch, disrespect from your first comment, just asking for a personal attack which never came, totally debunking your claim. There is nothing personal in what I said to Jonathan or to you so once again I have not a clue where you are coming from. It would have been so easy to go down the road of addressing you as Groat but as you see I am not that infantile, you can take that any way that you want. Have a nice day.

  7. iantinkler

    Great quote from Robert Duncan, “I sincerely doubt there is a single reader interested in what by now surely constitutes ‘trolling’.” Well in reply to, Robert Duncan, I have certainly caught your attention, Robert, you have certainly read my comments and are clearly stirred to reciprocate. The following also appear a little shaken, Wills, Stevenson, Purchase and last but not least , Brian Smith, stirred to poetry. Do you consider the above writers, including yourself, as trolls, or is it only those who do not share your Nationalist views, who you so insult. Tad hypocritical and prejudiced is that not? ” first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

    • Robert Duncan

      “I have certainly caught your attention, Robert, you have certainly read my comments and are clearly stirred to reciprocate”

      I suspected a reply of this nature, such is the manner of your approach, but rest assured my reactions are more ‘why does this strange man reply to near everything I post with irrelevant rubbish’ than ‘ooh I’m so annoyed by his poignant arguments’. A patient man eventually swatting at a pestering fly does not speak for the intellectual capacity of insects, and it is a strange pursuit for a grown man simply to seek reaction from people (less still when such effort goes into said pursuit).

      Still you have nothing constructive to say on the matter, meaning your posts largely constitute trolling. There is a difference between making that observation and calling you a ‘troll’, as for whatever reason I still have some faith that you are not totally incapable of contributing like an adult.

      • iantinkler

        Robert Duncan, your comment would so well apply to yourself, especially the lines “Still you have nothing constructive to say on the matter, meaning your posts largely constitute trolling. There is a difference between making that observation and calling you a ‘troll’, as for whatever reason I still have some faith that you are not totally incapable of contributing like an adult.” Now Robert, have you actually anything to add apart from the usually carping criticism. My views are “Wir shetlands here, very well documented, your views are exactly what apart from what appear to be caricatures of yourself?

      • Robert Duncan

        I happily share my views elsewhere, you’re extremely disingenuous to suggest otherwise. What I don’t do is perpetually draw on irrelevant rubbish posted elsewhere from the discussion in question, with no purpose other than to deflect attention from my inability to answer straight questions.

        I’m beginning to think “trolling” may be a generous description of your contribution here. In truth it’s little better than outright spam.

      • iantinkler

        Sure, Robert Duncan, strange you should get so wound up by “Spam”. Just out of interest apart from your almost never ending, generally meaningless, carping criticism, have you actually anything to say on the issue under discussion? (Hints for you Robert Duncan, Scott, Wills, Discard ban, Discussion in Europe, Wir Shetland, Shetland Fishing?) Now try and forget about me (compulsive, obsessive perhaps?) and try and enter the debate.

      • Robert Duncan

        It is terribly amusing you wish to depict me as the obsessive. It was you who replied to me initially, in case you’ve forgotten, as is so often the case elsewhere on these pages. It’d be less of an issue were these comment pages easier to navigate, but as it is you cluttering them up with your nonsense does tend to kill discussion with other contributors.

        I remain a little unclear on why criticism is being levelled at the largely powerless Scottish Government. I’ve made that point and have little else to add. I agree the discards ban is a nonsense, but that feels so obvious as to go without saying.

    • Ian Tinkler

      Wir Shetland, is campaigning for full autonomy. If successful Shetland Fishermen to take complete control of their own Shetland fishing grounds. The EU fishing policy, and regulations, including discard bans, would then be an utter irrelevance and a thing of the past. Simples, Robert, Johnathon, Robin, Ray and Brian.

      • iantinkler

        NOTA BENE: Is it not ironic at the same time as Dr. Wills, negotiates for “The Shetland fishermen’s associations”, he advocates endlessly for Viking Energy and petitions directly to Westminster and Europe for its interconnector. That interconnector is the forerunner and catalyst for offshore wind farms around Shetland. 2000 square miles of them and the infamous Shetland power hub! Sometimes you have to wonder who your real friends are, 2000 squre miles of floating wind farms, multiple power hub and most fishing grounds will become thing of the past. All references available online, or just ask Jonathan, how can you lobby for the fishing whilst doing your absolute best to wreck our seas and the industry? (SNP energy policy)!!

    • Ray Purchase

      Ian are you saying I’m a nationalist? I’ve certainly never said I am one. Are you presuming I am because I disagree with you? That’s not why I disagree with you, it’s because most of what you write is wrong and a lot of it is made up.

      • iantinkler

        No, Ray. Never said that you were anything.

      • iantinkler

        Ray Purchase, I make up nothing, all I state factually is researched, to my maximal ability. Now reference a single statement I have made which is not a fact. The “Times” and “News” archives are all there for you. Your statement “most of what you write is wrong and a lot of it is made up.” is a simple stupid lie. Now prove me wrong..

      • Robin Stevenson

        Ian

        Your idea of ‘facts’ is mainly from unresearched selective drivel taken from mainly our MSM, IF we were to believe these ‘facts’ they’d be no need to constantly correct them? Why do you think that [as figures show] every newspaper in the UK is heading for oblivion?

        You’re a prime candidate for:

        “Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please”.
        (Mark Twain)

      • iantinkler

        Really Robin, as I said, “Now prove me wrong”. Find a false statement that I cannot reference. For example you referring to more than half of Scotland as “Turncoats”‘ Just because they do not share your prejudices.

  8. John Tulloch

    I’m truly flattered that, following three years of fruitless talks, aided by the Scottish and UK governments, Jonathan Wills finally capitulates and requests that WIr Shetland end the deadlock.

    Short of sending over the galleys, the prognosis isn’t good. However, here is my “constructive suggestion”:

    Treat the EU mandarins to a brief history lesson:

    1. How they won control of Shetland’s fishing grounds – by passing the Common Fisheries Policy into EU law 6hrs before official acceptance of the UK’s application.
    2. Shetland voted a resounding No in the 1975 EU Referendum.
    3. Greenland was similarly shafted when Denmark joined the EU in 1973.
    4. Greenland won autonomy from Denmark in 1979 and left the EU in 1985.
    5. Shetland now has a strong, growing independence movement, WIr Shetland.
    7. Unless Shetland’s vital needs are recognised, Wir Shetland will gain momentum.
    8. There will be an In/Out EU referendum on 23rd June 2016
    8. Unless you bring home some tangible gains from these ‘permafrost’ negotiations, Shetland will be heading, inexorably, towards the EU exit.
    9. Closing remark: “So dere you ir boys, yuns da wye o it. Mak you a kirk or mill o’ it!”

    • Brian Smith

      Interesting constructive thought, John, but the candidate you are backing doesn’t agree with you!

      • John Tulloch

        None of the candidates agrees with us on EU membership, Brian. What is important is that we support a candidate who is most likely to help us to achieve our aim of autonomy.

        What we want is a democratically elected Shetland government to be empowered to leave the EU if it thinks fit, subject to a local referendum.

        Is that so difficult?

      • Brian Smith

        Impossible.

      • Christopher Ritch

        “It always seems impossible until its done.”

        Nelson Mandela

      • Brian Smith

        What Mandela said was, ‘It always seems impossible until you get oot o da restin shair.’

    • Derick Tulloch

      Point 5. You have neither stood nor got elected a majority of candidates. Or even one. Therefore this claim is unsubstantiated

      • John Tulloch

        We have more than 400 members. How many members has SNP Shetland?

      • Derick Tulloch

        Not being a member of Shetland SNP I have no idea how many members they have.

        However I do know that the SNP has been prepared to put up a candidate, and therefore we will know how much democratic support they have.

        Unlike ‘Wir’ Shetland, whose main activity seems to be shouting down anyone that dares to disagree with your nonsense.

      • John Tulloch

        Not at all, Derick, quite the reverse. We strongly support Tavish Scott’s candidacy. No point standing against a candidate who wants increased local powers for Shetland.

        I’m sure Danus Skene of SNP Shetland (and you) would love us to stand a candidate to split the increased local powers support and let Danus win however neither we nor the Shetland electorate are that daft.

      • Robin Stevenson

        John

        Your stance seems to be a contradiction on what you [supposedly] stand for?

        Are you saying that it’s ONLY Tavish that stands for extra powers and more autonomy for Shetland? As such, did you even bother to look at any other candidate and what they were trying to achieve? If so, then unlike you and WS you’d realize that there is only one candidate that is actually capable of delivering anything?

        I really don’t think you can speak for the Shetland electorate, but I do question your own logic and that of WS?

      • iatinkler

        It is with considerable relief to find Robin Stevenson is questioning the logic of Wir Shetland. I would be very concerned to find someone who regards 55% of all Scotland and 64% of all Shetlanders as “turncoats” had anything in common with Wir Shetland at all. Remember when casting your votes in the forthcoming election just whom Dannus Skene has as supporting him. It would be sad if Dannus has to rely on this type of nasty prejudice in his quest for power.

      • Robin Stevenson

        Ian

        Whatever attempts I make to persuade people to vote for the SNP pale into insignificance in comparison to your unconscious efforts. I’m humbled by your far greater ability to distance those from your own confused cause to anyone else’s that you’re not a part of. Incapable of discussion, incapable of accepting you’re wrong, incapable of civility. If people choose to be a part of that, then I genuinely fear for their future.

        I have already corrected your definition of what you thought ‘nationalism’ meant, however, like so many other times, you chose to ignore it, and instead focussed on the most vile form you could possibly come up with.
        Much the same as the word ‘turncoat’, you have done exactly the same thing and chose [once again] not to be corrected. So for the sake of anyone interested enough to ignore your faux outrage.

        Turncoat:

        “When the goal that formerly motivated and benefited the person becomes (or is perceived as having become) either no longer feasible or too costly even if success is achieved”.

        John & WS must be delighted to have you onboard? 🙂

  9. David Spence

    Does anybody have the answer for the many, many people from around Europe who are, mostly I think, working within the hospitality industry (hotels, cafe’s, pubs etc etc) and, in regards to Shetland, who are also working in the fish factories?

    If we exit the EU, what would be the situation for all these workers, and what affect this would have on industries that take on workers from the EU, because UK workers cannot be bothered to do this forms of work?

    Would these workers (if they want to stay) require some working visa or permit?

    Curiosity killing the cat. lol

    • iantinkler

      Further to John Tulloch’s comments, I would advise Jonathan Wills and Shetland Fishermen of the following. Dr. Wills and the SIC will never be taken seriously negotiating in Europe, on behalf of Shetland fishermen, when at the same time they implore Westminster and Europe to finance billion pound interconnectors to Shetland. These interconectores would enable the Sturgeon, Salmond, Ewing plan for 2000 square miles of offshore renewables in Shetland seas. The Shetland fishing industry would be no more, if the SNP dream of powerhouse Scotland, using Shetland waters came to fruition. I can only think the reason Jonathan Wills is going to Brussels to chair a meeting of the fisheries group, as the SIC’s representative ,is either for the plush expenses paid trip or to boost his already ample ego. I would love to know how many £ thousands have been squandered to date on what appears an academic exercise at best. Also just why not use video conferencing for these discussions? That way the SIC would save a fortune.

    • John N Hunter

      I suspect the No campaigners have not given it a second thought, nor have they considered the thousands of UK citizens who have made their lives in the EU.

      • iantinkler

        John, which no campaigners are you on about, Indy Scotland or EU?

      • Robin Stevenson

        I’ve tried to explain that very thing John,…. Mr Tulloch & Co cannot seem to see past a single industry? Weighing up the ‘pros and cons’ of membership of the EU is way beyond a single issue. The point made by David is spot on, when we consider just how many industries would grind to a halt if we were foolish enough to leave the EU? Hospitality, NHS, building industry, you name it? Scotland has historically flourished with immigration, to this day 85% of immigrants ‘contribute’ to Scotland’s revenue. [despite what our MSM try to scare us with]

        Perhaps I’m being a little selfish, but I’d like to think that I, along with my wife and children, that we’d all be in a position to be able to choose a country where we can come and go freely whether to live, trade, study, or even see a doctor with our EU trade agreement. The EU membership is NOT a single issue.

      • iantinkler

        For goodness sake, John, Execution is not advocated.

      • David Spence

        I may be wrong John, but I believe the number of Brits who have and operate businesses within the EU, but are outwith the UK, is in the region of about 2 million or so?

        If the situation was that the UK, exited the EU, the ramifications, I think, would most certainly be more damaging for the UK than for the EU, lets say.

        The rather outdated attitude of ‘ Great Britain ‘ (Great, said with a lot of sarcasm, because it most certainly isn’t Great) and we still have an empire blah blah really should be banished into the mists of time.

        Britain, at present, may be the 6th strongest economic country, but it most certainly will not be if we exit the EU.

      • John Tulloch

        Robin, I realise that the fate of Shetland’s fishing industry is of little consequence to the hair-cutting industry of Milngavie however it does account for a third of Shetland’s GDP so it’s rather more important up here.

        What have Danus Skene and SNP Shetland to say about the discard ban?

      • Robin Stevenson

        On the contrary John, every industry that affects Scotland’s revenue intake has an affect on all of us living and working in Scotland. regardless of which industry? While I appreciate that from Shetlands point of view it can be seen as more important than say, ‘computer game design’, this nevertheless is exactly what is meant by ‘you cannot fairly weigh up an entire country’s fiscal performance/viability based on only one industry’.

        Based on previous posts from yourself and others, what should be done? No MPA’s? No discard ban? No limitations of what’s caught? No limitations in what method is used for plundering our seas/seabeds? Just a carte blanche freeforall?

  10. Mogens Schou

    I appreciate this discussion is a pro-con EU thing. As the discard ban was fuelled by UK, Hugh’s fishfight and Scottish criticism of the “senseless waste of fish resource” one may relate to the material issue. The sensible management of fish stocks is this: Fishermen catching the fish should account for their full uptake – whether they sell the fish or discard it is not consequential to the stock. Accountability is. It is the “count all catches against the quota” that gives the choke species problem threatening the white fish fleet. If we accept that the choke problem should not be solved by simply closing your eyes for unaccounted discards we have the challenge defined. Many solutions exist and many are already being developed in UK. Here I just point to the inflexible MSY approach embedded in – yes, EU policy that makes it difficult to set TAC’s in a flexible way that allow for higher quotas on choke species. Higher quotas – still respecting the precautionary approach, is a sensible solution. I strongly fear that the alternative may be a collapse of the accountability requirement and thus a policy that i believe UK still supports

    • John Tulloch

      Indeed, Mr Schou, thank you. If I may quote you:

      “As the discard ban was fuelled by UK, Hugh’s fishfight and Scottish criticism of the “senseless waste of fish resource” one may relate to the material issue.”

      The material issue for Wir Shetland is that the EU would have been unable to act stupidly in response to the Scottish\UK outcry if Shetland had control of its own fishing grounds and, like Faroe, a seat at the table.

      This is our vital interest. FIsh and fisheries account for a third of Shetland’s GDP turnover.

  11. joseph niven

    the great in great britain refers to size, not power or importance.

    it does have its origins in empire,the roman one ,not the british one.

    the romans designated the area now occupied by scotland walesand england brittania major to differentiate from brittania minor(present day brittany in france.

    northern ireland is not included in this title which is why we have the united kingdom of great britain AND northern ireland.

    not everything can be dragged down to the level of modern politics in spite of the attempts of the regular commentatos here.

    • David Spence

      Thank you for the history information Joseph, but one suspects the majority of people will have a different interpretation of the word ‘ Great ‘ incorporated into the words ‘ Great Britain ‘ than what the roman’s did? lol