18th November 2018
Established 1872. Online since 1996.

Open-and-shut case (John Jamieson)

Alistair Carmichael has been caught out this time. We will never know how many more times he has evaded exposure.

This episode is an open-and-shut case for the right of voters to be able to recall their MP.

John Jamieson
37 Echline Place,
South Queensferry,
West Lothian.

53 comments

  1. Steven Jarmson

    Why is someone from Scotland trying to tell Shetlanders what to think?
    We don’t need Scots involving themselves on our area.
    I see this as a splash in the pan by comparison to the lies Salmond and Sturgeon told regarding EU membership, the pound, oil etc.
    When they admit to their lies instead of just point blank ignoring them and shouting over anyone who pulls them up for it then Carmichael might have to consider his position.
    At least he’s apologised.

    Reply
    • Matty Whyte.

      So thats it just apologise and all is forgiven??? The man is NOT to be trusted,and as for Scots telling shetlanders what to think , would you rather westminster tell you what to think? The last time i checked shetland is part of Scotland.

      Reply
      • Steven Jarmson

        Actually Matty, Id rather be governed direct from London than by the centralising Hollywood Parliament.
        Shetland (& Orkney) get nothing but mucked around by the extremist SNP centralisers.
        In fact, the extremist SNP do all they can to damage Shetland.
        They only promote one culture within Scotland, they don’t understand Shetland has a different history and culture.

        At least there was an investigation into the Carmichael leak. He didn’t entirely cover up the whole issue then ignore and hide behind “parliamentary privilege.”

        Where is the investigation into the Ferries contract?
        The extremist SNP didn’t even open an envelope with a bid. The lying SNP then said that bid didn’t meet bid criteria.
        The extremist SNP liars then covered up the whole fiasco, hoping no one would get wise to their lies.
        They hoped no one would get wise to them handing out contracts to their friends.
        Where’s the local nationalist protests about that?
        Who should stand down over that one?

        Why was their no investigation into Salmonds & Sturgeons lies about having legal advice about Scotland position within Europe. It took a very expensive court case to confirm what every new, there was no legal advice. Salmon just kept on claiming parliamentary privilege when ever he was asked for evidence of this legal advice.
        Where’s his integrity and honesty.
        Sturgeon knew there was no advice, where’s her integrity and honesty?
        Funny how the extremist SNP throw accusations around about everyone, but they behave worse.

        Why is there no investigation into why Shetland has been getting less money than we should have been getting for things like education, or, further to that, why aren’t we getting the money we’re owed?
        The extremist SNP denied for years that we were being under funded then, eventually, they admit they were liars.
        Where’s the calls for heads to roll there?

        The SNP extremists are hypocrites, liars and bluntly, untrustworthy.

        In short, Id rather be run by Cameron in London than Sturgeon and the extremists at Hollywood.

    • John Jamieson

      At the time this took place Alistair Carmichael was Secretary of State for Scotland, not the MP for Orkney and Shetland so why should comment be restricted only those resident in what was his constituency ?

      Reply
      • Steven Jarmson

        He was still MP for O&S. Just because he was Scottish Secretary didn’t end his local MP status.
        Just to be picky, he actually was technically not an MP or minister at the time it happened as Parliament was dissolved at the time.
        We don’t nee any more meddling from Scotland then we already suffer.
        Shetland (& Orkney) gets a bad enough deal from Hollywood, without even more people poking their noses in.

      • John Jamieson

        To Steven Jarmson,
        On the day of dissolution of Parliament on 30 March, although the Government and its ministers remained in power, every seat of the House of Commons became vacant and MPs reverted to being members of the public, they are even barred from using the title MP.
        During this time Alistair Carmichael was Secretary of State for Scotland but no longer the MP for Orkney and Shetland.

    • Robert Traquair

      I take exception to your comment regarding people from Scotland commenting on this deceit, the last I looked Shetland was and is part of Scotland and your inference is extremely divisive, as has been pointed out this person was the Secretary of State for Scotland when he committed this deceit, and cost all of us taxpayers an excessive amount of money to conduct a useless enquiry when he knew that he was responsible for promoting these lies because that’s exactly what they were. Your inclusion of Salmond and Sturgeon is merely an attempt to minimise and detract attention away from this man’s reprehensible behaviour. I don’t care whether you support SNP or LIBDEM or any other party, this behaviour is not acceptable in a democratic society, this is not some backward country ruled by a dictator these people are answerable to the electorate and the more they get away with lies and deceit the more they will do it, it is called contempt of the very people who put trust in them, and if you are willing to accept deliberate lying and distortion to secure their place at the money trough then you have my sympathy, I don’t know if your fellow Shetlanders or Orcadians uphold your passivity I certainly do not. Personally I think the police should charge the man with disreputable conduct whilst holding public office and let him be tried by a jury of his peers

      Reply
      • Ali Inkster

        The last I looked Scotland was and is part of the UK.

      • Robin Stevenson

        The last I looked the UK was part of Europe, and Europe was part of the world, and your point is????

    • Richard Hatti

      and I thought Alistair Carmichael was from Islay.. but it’s ok for him to tell Shetland and Orkney what to think..

      Reply
      • Steven Jarmson

        He’s elected to represent the north isles.
        Its when folk who have no idea try to interfere that I take exception.

  2. James Michael Hannah

    During the election Carmichael was quick to wrap himself in the mantle of Jo Grimond as his worthy successor. If only!
    As it turns out he is a self confessed charlatan and cheat.
    Surely he cannot continue as the North Isles MP!
    Do the right thing man and resign!

    Reply
  3. Martin Tregonning

    Thanks John from South Queensferry – I think it is up to the people of Shetland and Orkney to decide who represents them.

    By the way, we will really never know how many people John from South Queensferry has actually murdered – good thing we hold people to account for the things they have actually done, not the “how many more” we choose to slander them with.

    Reply
    • John Jamieson

      I agree with you that the people of Orkney and Shetland have the right to elect whoever they want to represent them, in fact I can’t see how you came to the conclusion that I didn’t.
      I also believe in free speech, wherever you live you apparently do not.
      Incidentally the Scottish legal is defamation, not slander.

      Reply
  4. steve Watt

    Its absolutely incredible that the Lib Dem have said no action will be taken against this man. He has acted as a criminal and should be treated as such. I have heard him many times profess his love for country, his actions completely expose this. Carmichael has and always wil be amother careerist whose real agenda is personal power and status and of course pure greed. This was evident when he stated on tv how he came to find out about the leak. He lied then in order to save his privileged position, till lying became no longer an option as he had become clearly a man of guilt. He should go now on his own account, he has no credibility left and nothing to offer. Mr Carmichael you not only let yourself down, you have betrayed your country.

    Reply
    • John Oakes Manchester England

      I think you will find the limpdems are mulling over in the local cafe who wants to be a leader. As you might not know if you wish to resign the person in charge need to be informed. Sadly limpdems are reduced to playing pattycake or maybe short straws. He should step down as soon as possible and inform his local committee of his intentions. Shetland and Orkney can force the resignation on the ground of no confidence and not representing the people interest. A recent conservative mp here in England was deselected for not having represented the local interest.

      Reply
  5. anne brown

    It boils down to this: Is this the man Orkney and Shetland want as their representative in Westminster? A proven liar ?

    Reply
  6. iantinkler

    anne brown, Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon, both are proven liars, are they not? are we not all becoming a little bit hysterical here. This cult of SNP is a little bit too much like a crusade, for goodness sake “thou does protest too much”, now grow up; or should we burn “This Man” at the stake for offending the blessed Nicola and The Almighty Danus?

    Reply
    • Robin Stevenson

      Please link your proof of your ridiculous accusation Ian? explain why Nicola Sturgeon is a “Liar” in your mind?….Explain how much there “lies” cost the taxpayer?…Explain how they used their position to illegally manipulate the outcome of an election?

      Incidentally, any forecasts whether it be oil prices or membership of the EU etc, will make your accusations null and void, because that is exactly what they are, forecasts.

      Reply
      • Ali Inkster

        Your showing a bit of selective memory and reading ability Wrobin, non existent legal advice and spending tax payers money going to court to prevent the public finding out they lied.

      • iantinkler

        The French, Spanish and Belgian governments have rejected Mr Salmond’s claim in a TV interview that he has held talks with them over EU membership
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11100406/Alex-Salmond-accused-of-lying-over-EU-talks.html
        Salmond’s NHS claims have been shredded by the IFS http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/salmonds-nhs-claims-have-been-shredded-ifs
        Nicola Sturgeons Lies about Naval procurement in an Independent Scotland
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tSD_EpdafQ
        http://www.thinkscotland.org/thinkliving/articles.html?read_full=11806
        (Two minutes on google wrobin!)

      • Steven Jarmson

        Basically Robin, any arguments that beats yours is null and void.
        Grow up.
        For the record, no one blamed the extremist SNP for getting their numbers wrong in the oil price, what everyone wanted to know was how their projections were so far out and also, what would they have done if Scotland had been independent and the oil price crashed like that?
        What was plan B?
        Was this another situation where the extremist SNP had no plan B?

        Also, the legal advice was an outright blatant lie.
        Salmond clearly said he had legal advice saying Scotland would automatically be a member of the EU. This was a lie, no other word for it.
        He had no legal advice.
        He lied.
        Very relevant, ignore the truth if you want.
        But Salmond is a liar, the evidence is there.
        It was proved by a court.

      • John Tulloch

        Steven,

        Robin’s trying desperately to keep the heat off Skene and MacKenzie – most probably because he’s one or both of them? 🙂

      • James Watt

        John, other than in your obsessed mind, there is no heat on MacKenzie or Skene. Despite your best efforts at whataboutery the only person feeling the heat right now is a certain Mr Carmichael, and no amount of manic letter writing from you or the other apologists is going to change that.

      • John Tulloch

        James Watt,

        You’re damn right I’m obsessed with the scandal of education under-funding and will be, until it’s resolved.

        I’ve already said I expect the procedures of the Standards Commission and the law will take their course over Mr Carmichael’s actions and I have no issue with that so please don’t try to stick that to me.

        I’m bitterly disappointed to hear about the memo release and I am, quite genuinely, also, very disappointed by the disingenuous behaviour of Messrs Skene and MacKenzie.

        Shetland deserves better, that’s why I’ve called for a new, pro-Shetland political party or group which can hold the SNP Scottish Government and the SIC to public account.

    • steve watt

      Hardly compare anything Alex Salmond nor Nicola Sturgeon have said to what Carmichael has done. Also dont understand your inference that Salmond and Sturgeon have lied. On the contrary nezr eeverything they have said has come to be. Of course I appreciate if you have been listening to Carmichael s lies pre referendum then you probably will not have looked nor studied any balance sheets regarding the Scottish economy, particularly regarding taxition and oil, otherwise you would know you have been misled and lied to. But the seriousness of Carmichael s offence here is a betrayal ti the people of Shetland, he has blatantly lied to you all and also a direct attack on the first minister of Scotland which is a very privileged position and should always be regarded as such. This in my opinion is an act of treason alone and if he had done this to ssy David Cameron he would be run out of politics for good. No case to protect him a thouragly deplorable and cowardly act.

      Reply
      • Steven Jarmson

        Treason?
        What are you on?
        All he did was leak a report. Many many reports are leaked.
        The only difference is this report was about the leader of the extremist SNP.
        If it was about Cameron, I think the statement would have been true, I’m quite sure Cameron would prefer that he is PM over Miliband.
        Carmichael, has over the year been a good strong voice for Shetland.
        He’s made a serious mistake, he’s apologised, Sturgeon accepted his apology.
        End of story.

        It took Salmond and Sturgeon quite a long time to apologise for their lies about EU legal advice that took many FOI requests and a court case to confirm was indeed a figment of their imagination.

  7. ken Mackay

    Alistair Carmichael has been proven to be a liar. If the electorate had known How low he was prepared to stoop he would nEver have been re elected.
    Just goes to show . You get into bed with the toxic Tories and a little bit of what they are like rubs off.
    He should resign and re fight the election.

    Reply
    • Gordon Harmer

      Carmichael admitted to doing wrong he has not been proven a liar, read the report before spouting off.
      An inquiry into the leak by Sir Jeremy Heywood, the Cabinet Secretary, defended the civil servant who wrote the memo.
      It said: “Senior officials who have worked with him say that he is reliable and has no history of inaccurate reporting, impropriety or security lapses.
      “The Cabinet Secretary has concluded that there is no reason to doubt that he recorded accurately what he thought he had heard. There is no evidence of any political motivation or ‘dirty tricks’.” So we have to ask ourselves did Sturgeon lie.

      Reply
      • George Pottinger

        … and you want someone who has admitted to being a liar to represent you in parliament, Gordon? Really, Gordon? The author of the memo admitted “what he thought he had heard” could have been “lost in translation”. Any reason why you missed out that bit in your contribution?

      • Gordon Harmer

        “Could have” George, hardly conclusive. Nothing is fact in this case yet folk like you would hang Carmichael out to dry, it smacks of a lynch mob. We are repented by liars in Holyrood George and I did not hear you objecting to being represented by them. Like I have said to your compatriots George, come down of the the high moral ground you have no right to be there.

      • Ron McArthur

        Totally agree, she has been caught lying. The French did not want to be seen to take sides, cleverly in my opinion simply said the memo was not a accurate. Not that it was a fabrication, a lie or untrue. She should be the one questioned on integrity.

      • John Tulloch

        It would be extraordinary, indeed, if a “reliable civil servant”, accustomed to minuting meetings, selected to meet a French diplomat, were to get such a huge point wrong. Even if it was said in French, “Mme Sturgeon a dit qu’elle prefere M. Cameron pour Premier”, the vast majority of civil servants would have no difficulty understanding that, correctly. Even my 1970 O Level French can, comfortably, take me through that!

        Are we to believe the French Ambassador and Consul General had insufficient grasp of English to convey this incredible statement accurately?

        The civil servant in question was obviously aware of the potentially explosive outcome of this record and – wisely – included the ‘AP1 clause’ that “something may well have been lost in translation”, purely, for his own protection.

      • Robert Duncan

        Carmichael’s “lie” is not to do with the contents of the memo itself, which he did not write. It is in his on-the-record claim that he was unaware of the memo or the source of the “leak”, a claim which led to a costly and avoidable public enquiry.

        I am not of the opinion that he should resign for that, but let’s not twist it with this politicised “well Sturgeon might have lied too!” rubbish.

      • Robin Stevenson

        Of course this “Lost in translation”, is merely a red herring, the entire conversation was conducted in English as Sylvie Bermann [French ambassador] Speaks perfect English. You can catch her on the Andrew Marr show.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOWjiz5JEqc

      • John Tulloch

        Yes Robin, Ms Bermann speaks very good English, indeed. Which leaves the possibility that “something was lost in the translation of the meeting minutes and/or their communication to Ms Bermann?

        How likely do you think that is?

      • John Jamieson

        Alistair Carmichael said that the first he was aware of this memo was when he received a call from a journalist about it but we now know that this is untrue.

    • Ali Inkster

      Rather an admitted liar than the SSnp who continue to lie and cheat in their dealings with not just Orkney and Shetland but the people of Scotland on a daily basis.

      Reply
  8. Tim Parkinson

    With it all to play for in Shetland, the content and actual authorship of the leaked memo needs to be thought through more specifically.

    With the socialist/labour voters disillusioned, it was predictable that they would shift reluctantly to the SNP because of the social justice agenda which the parliamentary Lib Dem party had so shamefully compromised in exchange for a shot in power.

    So, BY PURE COINCIDENCE, “coming across” a completely false memo written by “someone independent from Carmicheal” and written for no conceivable alternative motive; JUST HAPPENS to be a vital tool in steering wavering socialists away from the SNP and towards himself?

    What a stroke of luck!!

    I am currently writing to him begging him to give me six numbers between one and forty nine before the quadruple rollover on Wednesday!

    And we are asked to believe that his only sin was approving the release, without really looking sufficiently at the content and authenticity?

    Reply
    • Steven Jarmson

      My heavens.
      You nationalists really are a paranoid bunch.

      Reply
  9. Ian Stewart

    According to Steven Jarmson if you don’t live in Orkney or Shetland your not allowed to comment, This was a smear against my First Minister by someone who was Secretary for Scotland, No chance mate I’ll comment on any forum I like, Carmichael is a liar pure and simple, To try and defend him or his behaviour is a ridiculous position to take, A wee quote from 2010 in this very paper,

    The right to freedom of speech is a fundamental one but it does bring a responsibility with it to tell the truth. The right to smear an opponent is not one we should be defending.

    Alistair Carmichael MP

    Reply
  10. Chris Brown

    Stephen, Mr. Carmichael was in fact still a government minister at the time in question. Ministers remain in office until a new government is formed. Also, to be strictly accurate, Salmond authorised court action to maintain the long-established principle (one that I happen to disagree with) that governments do not disclose whether they have taken legal advice, let alone what any advice might have been.
    Gordon, Mr Carmichael has been perfectly clear that he content of the memo was not accurate, so he is in now in agreement with both of the people who were actually in the meeting.
    Ian, the IFS , the Telegraph and the New Statesmen are not what you could reasonably call impartial. They are no better than Wings Over Scotland.

    Reply
    • Gordon Harmer

      With due respect Chris, An inquiry into the leak by Sir Jeremy Heywood, the Cabinet Secretary, defended the civil servant who wrote the memo. It said: “Senior officials who have worked with him say that he is reliable and has no history of inaccurate reporting, impropriety or security lapses. “The Cabinet Secretary has concluded that there is no reason to doubt that he recorded accurately what he thought he had heard. There is no evidence of any political motivation or ‘dirty tricks’. If the memo was not accurate as you state it was not accurate in either direction, therefore does not support either side of the argument.

      Reply
  11. Martin Tregonning

    A very simple yes or no question for those, especially SNP supporters, who are calling on Alistair Carmichael to resign.

    Alec Salmond claimed prior to the Independence Referendum that he had independent legal advice that said that an independent Scotland would automatically be admitted to the EU. For months he refused to release this legal advice and he spent a considerable amount of taxpayers money resisting any attempts to make him release the advise.

    When he was finally forced to release the advice, it transpired that he never had any independent advice and it was all a fabrication.

    Given that at the time Alec Salmond was First Minister at the time, should he not resign as an MP for lying. If not, there seems to be a double standard here.

    Reply
    • Robin Stevenson

      No Martin, what there seems to be, is you and many others trying desperately to adopt the usual deflection tactic from the real issue?

      Reply
      • Ali Inkster

        You could just try answering the question instead of deflecting it Wrobin.

      • Robin Stevenson

        LOL,..Ali, that’s rich….I learned from the best you and the “Usual suspects”.

      • Ali Inkster

        So you are happy that Salmond, Sturgeon and Swinney lied to the public and spent public money trying to cover up that lie, but unhappy that Carmichael took a leaf out of their book. But then you are a bit reticent when it comes to a direct answer to a direct question, like Who are you? What is your relationship to Shetland? What is your relationship with the SSnp? And many others.
        It’s a funny thing this double standards you scoti nationalist socialists practice. You are quite happy to tell the rest of the UK that you are going to keep Orkney and Shetlands resources for yourselves yet you expect us to share them with you and not only that but be thankful. Well Your version of truth and honesty and fair play is not for me and not for the people of Orkney and Shetland.

  12. Geri O'Hagan

    Regardless of party politics, what Carmichael did was wrong. The justification that “the SNP lied before so it’s okay” is ridiculous. When will we start holding our representatives to account for their actions? Based on the arguments here, never! Now, more than ever, we need to come together across all party divides and really see things for what they are. How can Carmichael be trusted again after he blatantly lied which led to taxpayers money funding an investigation that wasn’t needed? Open your eyes and let’s start now to make our MPs trustworthy. Stop playing into their hands with blame and distraction. The argument that because someone else did it first is ridiculous. Jimmy Saville abused vulnerable people for years and wasn’t the only one. Over simplifying, yes, but do you think because he got away with it so should the rest? I despair when people would rather score petty points than move forward and create a better society for us and the next generation.

    Reply
  13. Robin Barclay

    On leaks and insincere indignation, I was interested in Shetland’s local politicians’ past behaviour, especially in the Nick Reiter affair when many think the SIC hit an all-time low. I found the following (Shetland Times 29/06/2010: Accounts Commission inquiry into the David Clark and Willie Shannon cases):

    “When the Commission asked about the problem of frequent leaks of confidential council information to the media, Mr Carmichael diagnosed them as a symptom of the problems in the local authority rather than the disease itself.
    He followed with a suggested cure: ‘If you have proper leadership and due regard for proper governance then the leaks would stop.’
    In his experience leaks were normally made either to cause embarrassment, to settle a score or because information was being kept secret inappropriately.”

    Carmichael has evidently embarrassed himself and must regret his actions, but I wonder if we will ever know who first suggested this and who was complicit. The best thing for Carmichael would be to resign and resubmit himself in a by election. However the SNP will benefit from the backlash being stirred up. The SNP need someone to scrutinize them. David Mundell just isn’t credible, and Ian Murray probably was elected for his role in saving Hearts Football Club. Despite his recent fall from grace maybe Carmichael is the best choice after all, not just for Orkney & Shetland but for the rest of Scotland too … if he does resubmit himself. He has to risk it to have any credibility.

    Reply
  14. Tim Morrison

    Surely the best way to clear the air is a by-election then Mr. Carmichael can have an untainted mandate and will be able to represent us with all this behind him.

    Reply
    • Brian Smith

      Let’s not have a by-election. Weeks more of this would drive us all crazy.

      Reply
    • John Tulloch

      No, Tim,

      The “best way to clear the air” is to find out the facts and the relevant circumstances that applied at the time via the parliamentary inquiry and legal election challenge for which YOU are one of the petitioners, don’t you agree?

      The parliamentary and court investigations will, also, determine who, if anybody, should resign and it seems extraordinary, therefore, that, as one of the legal petitioners, you apparently have so little confidence in your own legal action to deliver the verdict you want that, even though legal action is under way, you are still calling for Mr Carmichael to resign and stand for re-election?

      I want the lights of the investigations to shine into all the mucky corners so that they may be wiped clean, do you not want that, too?

      I did notice that Nicola Sturgeon has stopped describing the memo as “categorically, 100 percent untrue”, now preferring the term “inaccurate”, recalling Chris Huhne’s comment that the speeding allegations against him were “incorrect”.

      I think we need to know more.

      Reply

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